Knocks on the Door

[missycaela]

A lawyer has advised me not to talk to the police about our case. I haven't thus far. I would talk to the lawyer about this again, but I am a poor college student and cannot afford to know my rights. The officer has been coming to our door almost every morning (when he knows we work graveyard shifts) pounding on the door for 15-20 minutes. He then comes back an hour or two later and repeats this behavior. He suposedly just wants to ticket us for not having our dog licensed. I don't think he'd put in this much effort for that. Also he wears street clothes, not a uniform. The problem is that, today especially, he was pounding so hard that it was shaking my apartment, the neighbors upstair came outside to see what was going on, and the handle on my door is loose and will not open from the outside now. I feel that this is harassment and extremely inappropriate. Can anyone help?

[WaTcHeR]

Your "case" you speak of does it have to do with the dog? I'm a little confused on that.

Next time someone is pounding on your door, why not call "911" and report someone is pounding on your door "possible" trying to break in? If it is a cop pounding on the door, the real cops will confirm that he is a cop. If the guy is saying that he is a cop and pounding on your door, tell the "911" operator that you "fear" it's not a cop because he isn't wearing a police uniform.

You going to have take that ticket at some point right? Unless you get your dog a license. If you do call "911" and when the real police get there and this guy is a cop, your going to have to take the ticket and then the so called "harassment" should stop.

I'm surprised it's a cop trying to give you a ticket for no dog license, doesn't the dog catcher usually do that sort of thing?

[KC]

You have two choices it seems, open the door and take the ticket or buy ear plugs.

[missycaela]

I just found out that the officer is actually a community service officer. It makes more sense now why he is making such a big deal about this, and why he is not in a uniform. He really does have something to prove, and he's not able to do the most simple job. Do the same rules apply when dealing with a CSO? Can he really get a warrant for my boyfriend's arrest? He keeps threatening that.

[Shuftin]

missycaela said:

I just found out that the officer is actually a community service officer. It makes more sense now why he is making such a big deal about this, and why he is not in a uniform. He really does have something to prove, and he's not able to do the most simple job. Do the same rules apply when dealing with a CSO? Can he really get a warrant for my boyfriend's arrest? He keeps threatening that.

Police see us as ( so-much ) cattle, [ us against them ] . Some of us are inventoried and some of us are not [yet]. Have you seen cows with numbered tags stapled into their ears? If a warrant could be had, it would d be there. This threat implies that the CSO is concerned about you/boyfriend as an individual and wants to protect your constitutional rights. I say thee nay. Personally I am of the mind of “Wait-and-see”. Fear and ignorance is the biggest tool in the arsenal of police work. Again: If a warrant could be had, it would already be there.

[WaTcHeR]

I didn't know what a "CSO" was until I did a Google on it. It looks like a Community Service Officer," is nothing more than a wannabe cop? They usually get paid barely above minium wage. They remind me of "Citizens on Patrol," I suppose.

I take it you must live on a campus perhaps? I'm not sure if "CSO's" are the same thing as college campus cops? College campus cops have a lot of power of authority, but they usually work close with the regular city cops.

I'm not sure what "powers" the "CSO's" have. If anyone knows please let me know.

Here is some of the things I found that a "CSO" is responsible for:

Essential Functions

Depending upon assignment, duties may include, but are not limited to, the following:

Patrol Assignment:

Enforces traffic and parking ordinances.
Writes parking tickets.
Orders vehicle seizures.
Investigates non-injury and minor injury traffic accidents.
Interviews witnesses and takes statements.
Ascertains accident sequence.
Prepares accident diagrams.
Performs traffic control.
Responds to and investigates traffic complaints.
Receives reports of commercial, residential and automobile burglaries, petty theft, found property, abandoned bicycles, missing persons, auto theft, and other crimes with no known suspects.
Conducts initial investigations and prepares reports of findings.
Ascertains value of stolen vehicles and other lost/stolen items.
Investigates vandalism.
Responds to animal control emergencies.
Assists in crime scene investigations.
Transports juvenile detainees.
Transports juveniles to foster homes.
Provides Vehicle Identification Number verifications.
Serves subpoenas.
Alarm Abatement Coordinator Assignment:

Researches alarm calls from previous day(s).
Issues citations and sends out letters for false alarms.
Data enters citations and alarm permit applications.
Mails out permit applications, renewal forms, stickers, and alarm information to citizens.
Handles customer complaints.
Keeps daily statistics of all alarm calls to post on police department website.
Works with alarm companies to fix alarm problems and resolve customer issues.
Files and maintains records of all permits and citations.
Tracks all permit and citation revenue.
Processes permit fees collected and forwards to Finance.
Utilizes Microsoft Word, Excel and Access.
Assists customers at front counter.
Conducts training for in-house academy.
Missing Persons Investigator Assignment:

Conducts and/or assist to conduct interviews of witnesses and potential suspects.
Maintains and investigates active missing person reports.
Maintains missing person logs.
Maintains contact with families of missing persons.
Traffic – General Assignment:

Receives and respond s to abandoned vehicle complaints and calls regarding issuance of any warnings, tows, citations issued.

Administers the Abandoned Vehicle Authority program from issuance of abatements to the quarterly AVA report.

Tows and recovers stolen vehicles called into Traffic.
Traffic control for accidents, parades, crossing guard, etc. as needed.
Handles Traffic main phone line and office filing in absence of Traffic Clerk.
Works with Code Enforcement and Traffic Engineering on rear yard abatements or solutions to traffic and code violation problems.
On alternate years, coordinates and organizes the Junior Safety Patrol event for students in Fremont's elementary schools.
Traffic – Abatement Assignment:

Administers the Taxi Driver program for the City of Fremont.
Accepts and reviews applications for new drivers, renewals, and transfers.
Performs background, DMV, and criminal history checks of applicants.
Conducts applicant testing.
Issues or denies taxi driver permits.
Handles complaints on taxi drivers from citizens.
Ensures compliance with Fremont Municipal Code regulations.
Conducts cab inspections.
Volunteer Administrator Assignment:

Recruits volunteers.

Reviews application materials and interviews potential volunteer candidates.
Performs Background checks of applicants.
Maintains volunteer records.
Updates volunteer hours monthly; submits hours annually for citywide report.
Re-directs court order community service to other volunteer organizations.
Disciplines, reprimands and terminates volunteers.
Organizes annual volunteer recognition dinner.

[streetsweeper]

If you are avoiding the police to prevent them from executing the lawful discharge of their duty, then you are in violation of the law. Answer the door to see what the cop wants. If he asks for ID, give it to him. However, if he asks you particulars about a crime, you have the right to remain silent.

Don't give me that "I can't afford a lawyer so I don't know my rights" crap, either. If your in college, you have access to the library. I promise you all your state and federal laws, as well as the US Constitution can found there.

Also, if he's in plain clothes he may be a detective. If you doubt if he's a cop. you can ask him to identify himself without opening your door. You can also tell him you'd like to see a uniformed officer there before you speak with him.

My agency doesn't have "CSOs" we enforce our city zoning ordinances as well as local and state laws. Yours may be the same. I'd talk to him before there is an obstruction warrant issued and your door is kicked in (the police have the right to search an address on an arrest warrant for the accused).

[OinkerBuster]

streetsweeper said:

If you are avoiding the police to prevent them from executing the lawful discharge of their duty, then you are in violation of the law. Answer the door to see what the cop wants.

Really? Isn't there something that seems a little gestapo-esqe about this to you? [HITLER VOICE]YOU VILL ANSWER THE DOOR VEN VEE KNOCK OR YOU VILL BE SHOT!!!{/HITLER VOICE].

I mean, c'mon. If anyone, LEO or not, knocks on my door and I don't want to talk to them I won't. If it's important enough for them to come to my house they're going to need a warrant. Whether it's for a tail light or a city ordinance violation for my lawn being too tall... and then I think a strong argument can be made at that point that the behavior is harassment.

[WaTcHeR]

streetsweeper said:

If you are avoiding the police to prevent them from executing the lawful discharge of their duty, then you are in violation of the law. Answer the door to see what the cop wants. If he asks for ID, give it to him. However, if he asks you particulars about a crime, you have the right to remain silent.

Don't give me that "I can't afford a lawyer so I don't know my rights" crap, either. If your in college, you have access to the library. I promise you all your state and federal laws, as well as the US Constitution can found there.

Also, if he's in plain clothes he may be a detective. If you doubt if he's a cop. you can ask him to identify himself without opening your door. You can also tell him you'd like to see a uniformed officer there before you speak with him.

My agency doesn't have "CSOs" we enforce our city zoning ordinances as well as local and state laws. Yours may be the same. I'd talk to him before there is an obstruction warrant issued and your door is kicked in (the police have the right to search an address on an arrest warrant for the accused).

Streetsweeper is WRONG by suggesting you open your door to a police officer! There is no law that requires you to open your door to a cop. You can say to the cop through the door, that you have nothing to say or just say nothing, but never open your door! If the cops want you bad enough and you have committed a crime, they will have a search warrant and break down your door.

[streetsweeper]

watcher said:

Streetsweeper is WRONG by suggesting you open your door to a police officer! There is no law that requires you to open your door to a cop. You can say to the cop through the door, that you have nothing to say or just say nothing, but never open your door! If the cops want you bad enough and you have committed a crime, they will have a search warrant and break down your door.

Okay, fine. Take Watcher's advice. By the way, if there is an arrest warrant and your address is on said warrant, it's just as good as a search warrant. So by all means, let the cops break down your door and drag you off to jail. I just hope you have someone to leave behind to watch all your stuff.

I never said you have to answer the door. I'm just merely suggesting what would be easier for you all around. If it makes you feel better, feel free to talk to them through to door.

[WaTcHeR]

streetsweeper said:

watcher said:

Streetsweeper is WRONG by suggesting you open your door to a police officer! There is no law that requires you to open your door to a cop. You can say to the cop through the door, that you have nothing to say or just say nothing, but never open your door! If the cops want you bad enough and you have committed a crime, they will have a search warrant and break down your door.

Okay, fine. Take Watcher's advice. By the way, if there is an arrest warrant and your address is on said warrant, it's just as good as a search warrant. So by all means, let the cops break down your door and drag you off to jail. I just hope you have someone to leave behind to watch all your stuff.

I never said you have to answer the door. I'm just merely suggesting what would be easier for you all around. If it makes you feel better, feel free to talk to them through to door.

Then I guess what you meant to say was they have a choice to open their door or not, is this not correct?

Know your rights!

flyservers.registerfly.com/members5/policecrime.com/police.html


I have a question for you. You said "I just hope you have someone to leave behind to watch all your stuff." Here's my question, if you do break down the door and take the alleged criminal away, what happens to the door and the security of the home? For example what are the cops required to do, when there's a mother and 4 children in the home without a front door at 2 am? What are they to do about security and safety? Where does the "protect and serve" come into play with police officers or do they just walk away and leave the mother and kids to defend themselves from intruders without a door?

Here's another question for you, let's see how smart you are. You are supposedly a police officer, right? Your sitting at home on your day off and there's a knock on the door. You go to the door and see two men in suits standing outside. Before you open the door, you ask who they are. The reply they give you is, they are with the F.B.I. and would like to talk to you. What would you do? I eagerly await your response.

[streetsweeper]

watcher said:

Then I guess what you meant to say was they have a choice to open their door or not, is this not correct?

Personally I think it's being paranoid, but no, you don't have to open the door. You can talk through the door if you want. My point being is you don't know if they have a warrant or not unless you talk to them.

watcher said:

Here's my question, if you do break down the door and take the alleged criminal away, what happens to the door and the security of the home?

As far as property is concerned, the police must make a reasonable effort to make secure anything left behind. However, one's opinion on what is "reasonable" may vary if you attempt to hide, flee, or conceal identity like you are encouraging.

If there are children on the premises, then they are to be released to a relative or be remanded over to the state. Again, I can't speak for every agency, so YMMV.

watcher said:

Here's another question for you, let's see how smart you are.

Yes, because I have nothing better to do than prove myself to you.

watcher said:

Your sitting at home on your day off and there's a knock on the door. You go to the door and see two men in suits standing outside. Before you open the door, you ask who they are. The reply they give you is, they are with the F.B.I. and would like to talk to you. What would you do? I eagerly await your response.

I open my door and talk to them. If I feel I am the subject of an investigation, I advise them I will say nothing on the matter without consulting legal counsel. I then offer to help them in any other way I can.

[M1]

watcher said:

Your sitting at home on your day off and there's a knock on the door. You go to the door and see two men in suits standing outside. Before you open the door, you ask who they are. The reply they give you is, they are with the F.B.I. and would like to talk to you. What would you do? I eagerly await your response.

I open my door and talk to them. If I feel I am the subject of an investigation, I advise them I will say nothing on the matter without consulting legal counsel. I then offer to help them in any other way I can.[/quote]

Theres only two groups of people that cops fear the most, and that's another cop "ratting" on them and the FBI questioning them. The minute you knew the FEDS were at you door wanting to question you, you be on that phone to your supervisor and to your attorney. Why would you think the FEDS would be at your door? Maybe selling girl scout cookies?

[streetsweeper]

Don't presume to know what I do and do not fear. There's nothing for anyone to "rat" me out on, since I don't do anything illegal while I'm acting under color of law. That's not to say when I'm off duty I may not obey every single little traffic law out there, but other than that, I am a law-abiding citizen.
As to why the Feds would be at my door, this is a hypothetical scenario. But I would wonder why they were at my door since I would have done nothing wrong. That's why I'd talk to them and see what was up. Sorry my answer didn't feed your agenda, M1.

[KC]

streetsweeper said:

That's not to say when I'm off duty I may not obey every single little traffic law out there, but other than that, I am a law-abiding citizen.

You're a police officer, you're swore to uphold and obey the law. "Just not the ones you choose to obey." You just admitted that you don't follow every law, do you think that's setting a very good example? If you don't obey all laws, as you clearly indicated that you don't, then why should anyone believe what you have to say or even respect you as a police officer?

[KC]

Here's a link below on why you don't open your door to police officers when they come knocking. There like cockroaches, hard to get rid of.

policecrime.proboards28.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=talk1&thread=1149732931&page=1

[Nick]

streetsweeper said:

Don't presume to know what I do and do not fear. There's nothing for anyone to "rat" me out on, since I don't do anything illegal while I'm acting under color of law. That's not to say when I'm off duty I may not obey every single little traffic law out there, but other than that, I am a law-abiding citizen.
quote]

So you took an oath to obey, follow and up hold the law only when on duty? When your off duty you have said that you have no respect for the law. You have admitted that you sometimes break the law? If your not a liar, you must surely be a hypocrite. You're no different then any other criminal out there, that has no respect for the law.

Are we to believe that when you see people breaking the same laws that you break, that you turn and look the other way with a blind eye, or do you pull them over and ticket them because they got caught and you didn't?

You either are a liar because you took an oath and you don't follow that oath or you're a hypocrite! Would you like to clarify this?

[streetsweeper]

And do you, Nick, obey every traffic law out in your state when you are out on the road? Every single one? You sure? I bet I can follow behind you for less than 10 miles and find something you did wrong.

I'm human, I'm not perfect. Being human means I make mistakes. I've also not charged people who have made similiar traffic violations because I understand that they are human too.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

[Nick]

streetsweeper said:

And do you, Nick, obey every traffic law out in your state when you are out on the road? Every single one? You sure? I bet I can follow behind you for less than 10 miles and find something you did wrong.

I'm human, I'm not perfect. Being human means I make mistakes. I've also not charged people who have made similiar traffic violations because I understand that they are human too.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Why are you trying to turn the tables? Were are discussing what you said, not what I said. A person should be smart enough never to admit that they break the law, you on the other hand have openly admitted to the public that you being an officer of the law, have broken the law and that you have no respect for certain laws.

First you said, "That's not to say when I'm off duty I may not obey every single little traffic law out there." Now your saying that you make mistakes? You didn't say in your original post that you break the law by mistake, you said you deliberately don't obey every law that is out there. Sir that means you are a hypocrite!

When you disobey "traffic laws" you jeopardize the lives of other motorist. So for all of us that don't deliberately disobey the law, let us start throwing the stones at this hypocrite.

[KC]

streetsweeper said:

If I was a liar, I'd sit up here and tell you I never ever broke the law. Calling me a liar is not factual, and it is defamatory. It is against your TOS.

So you are saying that you have never lied you entire life?

streetsweeper said:

Lying isn't a crime unless it's under oath. The only exception in my state is when giving a Law Enforcement officer in the official discharge of his duties your name, address, or date of birth.

However, I personally don't make a practice of lying. I can't speak for every cop out there no more than you can speak for every idiot that posts on cop-bashing forums.

You yourself say it's not a crime to lie, unless it's under oath. So you can honestly sit there and say that you have never lied while as a cop? It's pretty much common knowledge that cops lie everyday on the job, sometimes they have to since they are dealing with bad guys that lie or ignorant people that don't know any better.

So you are saying that you have never used one of these lines or something similar while working as a cop?

* "You will have to stay here and answer my questions" or "You're not leaving until I find out what I want."

* "I have evidence on you. Tell me what I want to know or else." (They can fabricate ''fake'' evidence to convince you to tell them what they want to know.)

* "You're not a suspect. Were simply investigating here. Just help us understand what happened and then you can go."

* "If you don't answer my questions, I won't have any choice but to take you to jail."

* "If you don't answer these questions, you'll be charged with resisting arrest."


A lie is a lie and a liar is still a liar.