|
Post by Bertie on Jun 2, 2006 10:10:31 GMT -5
"Voluntary manslaughter".......................Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, what a joke. I said it when I saw it the first time----that was ATTEMPTED MURDER! Webb was setting it up to say the guy jumped up and lunged at him, probably while reaching in his waistband or some other bs. And he would have gotten away with it if not for the video. Does anybody doubt Webb meant to kill him? He should be charged with ATTEMPTED MURDER!
|
|
|
Post by Vani on Jun 12, 2006 10:34:13 GMT -5
I think that it's obvious that an armed officer should not shoot an unarmed civilian. But I think there are so extenuating circumstances. What would you do if you witnessed a car racing through a residential neighbor at 100 mph? Even a pedestrian would be frightened. Naturally a police officer is trerribly afraid when he witnesses such incidents. The shooting victim should not have been speed in a 25mph zone. That was just irrational. It's reasonable that the officer thought that he was confronted by serious criminals. I am not sure if he was alone or not, but I think that the crrcumstances were probaly pretty stressful for the officer. It's clear to me that the officer was desperately trying ot get control over a situation that must have appeared truly chaotic and dangerous. It's true that police officer have a responsibility to us but we also have a responsibilty to not appear dangerous to them. I was once stopped by police officer as I speeded to work on a under used street. The officer stood in the middle of the road and forced me to stop the car. He then popped his head in the window. I immediately perceived that he was in an altered state of consciousness and was not in a normal state. I remember what my older brother had told me, I put my hands on teh steering wheel, I complied immediately and utterly with his requests and I tried to remain calm and polite. Police officers can be crazy and dangerous because America and Americans are crazy and dangerous and getting more so every day.
|
|
|
Post by Bertie on Jun 13, 2006 11:48:18 GMT -5
"Get up!........Get up!"
|
|
|
Post by across from NJ on Jun 14, 2006 21:02:42 GMT -5
Did the tape come out before the deputy made a statement. I wonder what his first report said.
|
|
|
Post by KC on Jun 14, 2006 22:05:10 GMT -5
Did the tape come out before the deputy made a statement. I wonder what his first report said. 03/16/2006 - Luis Carrillo said a video of the Jan. 29 shooting of his client, Elio Carrion, 21, clearly catches Deputy Ivory J. Webb Jr. yelling, after the shooting, that Carrion tried to attack the him before he opened fire. The shooting, which an amateur cameraman captured on videotape, came after a high-speed car chase. The grainy footage appears to show Carrion, the passenger in the car, complying with Webb's commands to get up just before the deputy shot him three times. Television broadcasts of the video, which are of poor quality, don't appear to back the claim that Carrion made any threatening moves toward the deputy. It also is difficult to hear any verbal exchanges after the shooting. The San Bernardino County District Attorney's Office last week charged Webb with attempted voluntary manslaughter. Webb faces more than 18 years in prison if convicted of the charge and the enhancements of using a gun and causing great bodily injury to Carrion. "When you look at the video and listen closely, you already know he is starting to set up his false version," Carrillo said Wednesday. "When (Webb) first talked to the officers, he was under the impression there was no contrary evidence that would discredit him."Statements to San Bernardino County investigators bolster the accusations made by Carrillo and the man who took the video, Jose Luis Valdes. Both said they heard similar comments from Webb. Webb's attorney, Michael Schwartz, did not return repeated calls for comment. The deputy told a Chino police officer who arrived on the scene and later a sheriff's sergeant that Carrion had "charged him," according to information in a report published by the Los Angeles Times. The nearly 400-page confidential sheriff's report, which the Times obtained, indicates that despite Webb's early statements, the deputy later said he shot Carrion because he believed the airman was going for a gun."I'm not surprised about the conflicting statements," Carrillo said Wednesday. "This shows that Webb should have been charged with attempted murder and giving false statements."The attorney said the sheriff's department and FBI are in possession of an unedited version of the videotape. Carrillo said he viewed the unedited version of the tape and added that Webb yelled expletives numerous times at Carrion after he was shot. Webb demanded that Carrion not move five times and then twice yelled more expletives at Carrion after the shooting, he said. The last words Webb yelled were a warning to the injured Carrion not to attack him, Carrillo said. The District Attorney's Office declined to comment on the accusations and also said despite the Times publishing excerpts from the report, it would not be released. The sheriff's department official called the document an investigative report and not a public document. Four days had passed by the time Webb was interviewed by detectives, and he had already seen the video before meeting with investigators, the published account states. During a lengthy interview, Webb broke down, saying that he believed he was in danger. "I'm dead," Webb said he was thinking at the time, according to the report. "I'm not going to see my baby, I'm not going to see my wife. I'm not going to see my dad." According to the Times, it was unclear if detectives challenged Webb's contradictory statements. Webb said when the Corvette stopped, Carrion emerged from the vehicle looking like he was trying to find an escape route. The deputy also was trying to keep an eye on the driver, Luis Fernando Escobedo, when the shooting occurred, according to the report. Wednesday, Valdes said when the officers arrived at the scene, he invited officers to view the tape in his home. Valdes said Webb had already been taken away from the scene by other officers. Investigators came into his home some stood behind his couch and others sat as the video played. All the officers sat in silence until the moment Webb shot Carrion. At that point Valdes said "they all gasped." "I don't know what the officer was thinking when he did that to Carrion," Valdes said. "From the beginning, I've been telling people that what I saw that night wasn't what (Webb) said happened. If I didn't videotape it, Webb would've been free and Carrion would be sitting in jail."Carrillo on Wednesday said he agreed with Valdes that without the video, everything would have played out differently. "It highlights that the custom and practice of police covering up misconduct and excessive force is alive and well in San Bernardino County," he said.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Jun 15, 2006 15:00:18 GMT -5
This pig is a terrorist. The only good fortune in this, is that this attempted murder failed to kill the victim, not through lack of trying. It's pigs like this guy that make good citizens hate and fear the police. They are so conditioned to seeing the citizenry as the enemy that they cannot hide their contempt for "civilians". If you have a relative in the police force, then you should really hate pigs like Webb, who make your loved one's job much more difficult. When the population finally decides that the enforcers are the enemy, then you will see something to pray about. The cop culture is the problem - it is a culture of fear, violence, rage, and iniquity.
|
|
|
Post by Bertie on Jun 16, 2006 3:55:13 GMT -5
You're an ignorant, inbred retard. Do the world a favor and go play Russian roulette with a semi-auto
|
|
|
Post by Hank on Jun 24, 2006 1:36:00 GMT -5
I have said since I was a small child, Women shouldn't always trust male doctors, Children, and their parents shouldn't blindly trust teachers, Preachers are only human, so don't place them too high on that pedistal, ... And .. " Never, Ever at any time trust a cop " .. NEVER ..
|
|
|
Post by RW on Jul 9, 2006 16:12:59 GMT -5
My thoughts and prayers are with the family of Deputy Webb. Police Officers are called upon daily to protect and serve. Is it possible that Deputy Webb told the guy to "shut up"? My husband is also a Police Officer and I can imagine what Mrs. Webb and her entire family are going through right now. I will pray and offer my support to this family. I am sorry that the guy was shot, but lets think about it, why were they running from the police in the first place? If he is the "hero" that he wants to be hailed as, why was he driving in the car with someone who was drunk. Can we at least give this Deputy the benefit of the doubt? I wonder if charges would have been filed had he been a white Deputy. May God help us all if this man spends one moment in jail. The criminals have rights, what about Deputy Webb? My heartfelt prayers and thoughts are with his family tonight and until this Deputy is cleared of all charges. Yes, we should always defer to police officers because they are always right. Webb was scared, that's all he should need...he can kill anybody. Yeah, one more thing...how is a passenger responsible for the driver? So, if I get into a car with a drunk driver, I'm responsible for his actions and deserve to get shot for following an officer's orders? Here in Albany, NY, an innocent bystander was killed by an officer on New Year's Eve a few years ago. The officer was shooting at a car that was driving away (key point AWAY from the officers) and a bullet deflected off the car and killed someone on the sidewalk. The guy fired 8 shots with tons of people around. His partner (who was "cleared" in a bar assault case just prior to this incident) "smartly" fired only one shot and thought better of firing any more. My point? Same thing...wives of police officers wrote to local newspapers telling us how we should feel sorry for the officers...you know, because these wives get good and proper police response so the rest of us do, too, obviously. Ever get arrested and have police make up shit you didn't do? Well, wifey, justify that! Just because a person may have committed one crime does not give fucking pigs the right to frame that person for other shit.
|
|
|
Post by Lance on Jul 11, 2006 15:02:08 GMT -5
Enough. Police procedure is to get the guy on the ground, hand on his head. Check. Holster sidearm and administer handcuffs. Suspect is secure.
Officer Webb didn't do this. He CLEARLY says "Get up" more than once. Notice the sirens getting closer by the second?!? He was running out of "private" time and ordered him to "get up". He knew that shooting him on the ground would have produced forensic evidence NOT in his favor. He shot him three times and as the soldier screamed and cried out in pain Officer Webb says "Shut the Fuck Up!". How scared he looks.
Officer Webb tells the two officers that roll up (one being a Srgnt.) that he "got up against my orders and charged at me". NOT WHAT I SEE. He changed his story, after viewing the tape on the news, four days later when officially interviewed. He needed to be charged with Attempted Murder and NOT Attempted Voluntary Manslaughter. If the roles were reversed, you or I would be IN JAIL without bond on attempted murder and aggravated assault of a police officer.
Now, any police officers or their wives want to comment? I've met some nice cops and have some as my friends. This guy IS NOT one of them. End of story.
PS-- He won't get much of a sentence IF ANY! He is a cop. The civil suit will be juicy though!
|
|
|
Post by Lance on Jul 11, 2006 15:03:04 GMT -5
Enough. Police procedure is to get the guy on the ground, hand on his head. Check. Holster sidearm and administer handcuffs. Suspect is secure.
Officer Webb didn't do this. He CLEARLY says "Get up" more than once. Notice the sirens getting closer by the second?!? He was running out of "private" time and ordered him to "get up". He knew that shooting him on the ground would have produced forensic evidence NOT in his favor. He shot him three times and as the soldier screamed and cried out in pain Officer Webb says "Shut the Fuck Up!". How scared he looks.
Officer Webb tells the two officers that roll up (one being a Sergeant.) that he "got up against my orders and charged at me". NOT WHAT I SEE. He changed his story, after viewing the tape on the news, four days later when officially interviewed. He needed to be charged with Attempted Murder and NOT Attempted Voluntary Manslaughter. If the roles were reversed, you or I would be IN JAIL without bond on attempted murder and aggravated assault of a police officer.
Now, any police officers or their wives want to comment? I've met some nice cops and have some as my friends. This guy IS NOT one of them. End of story.
PS-- He won't get much of a sentence IF ANY! He is a cop. The civil suit will be juicy though!
|
|
|
Post by jUST ME on Jul 14, 2006 14:46:47 GMT -5
What a moron.
|
|
|
Post by WaTcHeR on Jul 14, 2006 17:16:38 GMT -5
Tennessee woman's husband also shot by deputy in Chino Claim draws parallels to 1993 wrongful death case07.14.2006 - Anne-Marie Speaker Helmsworth flipped on her television one day in January after getting a troubling phone call from her family in California. The TV news report the Tennessee woman saw was about an Air Force senior airman who had been shot by a San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy in Chino. The story was something Helmsworth could relate to: Her husband had been shot dead by a Chino Hills deputy 13 years earlier. She immediately booked a flight, traveled 2,000 miles across country, and sought out the family of Elio Carrion, the wounded man she had heard about on the news. "I met with them for about two hours one night and just talked about my case, what they were up against and not to stop fighting," she said. The Carrions, who filed a civil claim against San Bernardino County on Wednesday alleging civil rights violations in the Jan. 29 shooting, is in for a long fight, she told them. Helmsworth was in and out of court for eight years in a wrongful death suit she filed against San Bernardino County after her husband, John Speaker, was shot and killed. The case resulted in two mistrials, but eventually the county awarded $3.4 million to Helmsworth, Speaker's parents and the attorneys in the case, she said. Carrion was a passenger in a vehicle whose driver became involved in a high-speed chase that ended in a crash Jan. 29. Carrion, who was on military leave from serving in Iraq, was ordered by sheriff's Deputy Ivory J. Webb Jr. to get up from the ground. When he appeared to be complying with the deputy's request, Webb shot Carrion three times. The incident was captured on videotape by an amateur cameraman. Carrion's attorney, Luis Carrillo, detailed the Speaker case in Carrion's claim because he said it is an example of a case that should have led to improvement in use-of-force training procedures by the Sheriff's Department. He said training changes are needed because police administrators are too often "resistant to change, reluctant to admit their tactics and training are flawed, so they go on as business as usual." The Sheriff's Department has declined to comment on the claim due to the pending criminal case against Webb, who has been charged with attempted voluntary manslaughter. Officials on Thursday also would not discuss whether changes in policies and training have been considered in the past. San Bernardino County sheriff's deputies shot John Speaker, 28, of Chino Hills, on April 4, 1993, when he came out of his house with a hammer and screwdriver and charged the deputies, sheriff's officials said. The man had been taking medications for an illness and was drinking prior to deputies arriving at his home. The Speaker family's claim, however, said Speaker was mentally distraught, and that deputies should have employed medical professionals or skilled negotiators before resorting to excessive force. Helmsworth said her husband was holding a hammer and screwdriver, but didn't charge deputies. He had been suffering from Tourette's syndrome, which she said had been exacerbated by head trauma he received in an earlier car accident. But despite medication a doctor prescribed him, Speaker began experiencing problems the night he was shot. Deputies said he was smashing his belongings and screaming when they came to his home. At one point, he smashed the windows out of his Ford Taurus with a hammer and a barbell. Deputies repeatedly tried to calm the man down, but he wouldn't listen to them, sheriff's officials said. Helmsworth said her settlement is going to help with her children's education, but that isn't enough, she said. She thinks changes in the use-of-force policies and better training may prevent future shootings -- something that also would benefit deputies, because of the lasting trauma they experience after shooting someone, she said. Area law enforcement agencies, including the Fontana and Riverside police departments, have conducted reviews and enacted policy changes in response to officer-involved shootings in the past. Fontana police commissioned a use-of-force and deadly force policy review in 2002 in response to several shootings and in-custody deaths. The department implemented 23 of the 30 recommendations made by the committee. The recommendations included the purchase of additional Taser guns to cover each shift, production of an officer-involved shootings booklet, and using specialized patrols to handle serving warrants to people considered high-risk. "I think what it does is it shows the public we're willing to listen to their concerns," said Fontana police Sgt. William Megenney. "We're here for the public and we want to work hand in hand with them." Following the December 1998 shooting of Tyisha Miller by four Riverside police officers, the city formed a use-of-force panel that provided recommendations to the Police Department. The panel recommended changing the use-of-force policy to address cultural and racial sensitivity, hiring more women and minorities as officers, and increasing diversity training. www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_4048603
|
|
|
Post by Steve Dryden on Jul 26, 2006 18:14:49 GMT -5
My thoughts and prayers are with the family of Deputy Webb. Police Officers are called upon daily to protect and serve. Is it possible that Deputy Webb told the guy to "shut up"? My husband is also a Police Officer and I can imagine what Mrs. Webb and her entire family are going through right now. I will pray and offer my support to this family. I am sorry that the guy was shot, but lets think about it, why were they running from the police in the first place? If he is the "hero" that he wants to be hailed as, why was he driving in the car with someone who was drunk. Can we at least give this Deputy the benefit of the doubt? I wonder if charges would have been filed had he been a white Deputy. May God help us all if this man spends one moment in jail. The criminals have rights, what about Deputy Webb? My heartfelt prayers and thoughts are with his family tonight and until this Deputy is cleared of all charges.
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Jul 26, 2006 18:24:08 GMT -5
Yes, he yelled "shut the f# k up. And he also told the airman to stand up. The guy was only do what the deputy was telling him to do and for what? To get shot 3 times for following his orders? And please....please...don't try to bring the whole black/wite race issue into it. That ploy is really, really getting old. Would it have made a diffference if the guy that as shot was white instead of Hispanic? White instead of black? Leave it alone. Every time someone screws up, you CAN'T make it a racial issue. And the guy that got shot wasn't necessarily a "criminal." The gy who was driving the car may have committed criminal acts. But you can't call a passenger, who doesn't have control over the vehicle that someone else is driving, a criminal. He's a military police officer himself. Do you think he was intent on committing a crime simply by sitting in the passanger seat of an out of control friend's car who obviously did a very stupid thing? And may God help us if Deputy Webb DOESN'T spend one moment in jail. He shot an unarmed man 3 times. A fellow law enforcement officer who hadn't commited a crime and was simply following the deputy's instrections. Use your brain and think rationally before you start throwing race issues into it and automatically siding with the deputy just because your husband is a police offcer. Cops do stupid things just the rest of the human race.
|
|
|
Post by anonymous on Jul 27, 2006 8:45:03 GMT -5
It looks like he was demoted. All the stories say he was an Senior Airman E-4, but now he is an Airman E-2 After basic, tech school and time in Iraq, there is no way you can be an E-2 unless you were punished.
|
|
|
Post by NP on Jul 27, 2006 10:08:00 GMT -5
It looks like he was demoted. All the stories say he was an Senior Airman E-4, but now he is an Airman E-2 After basic, tech school and time in Iraq, there is no way you can be an E-2 unless you were punished. So what your saying is that the airman was demoted and this gave the deputy a right to shoot and try to kill him?
|
|
|
Post by anonymous on Jul 27, 2006 11:32:01 GMT -5
No, he was punished after the shooting and therefore isnt as innocent as he has been portrayed to be. Carrion kept talking over the cop and then tells him that he has served longer than him...not a good idea to antagonize the cop with a gun pointed at him. I bet the officer was meaning to say Dont get up, and Carrion happend to act quickly on the get up command and saying "I'm getting up" right after speaking to the cop in a manner that he wasnt doing his job right. Maybe the cop didnt catch his mistake and is thinking that the kid is trying to defy his authority, and then hears and seas that he is getting up despite his earlier requests to stay down.
They were both in the wrong, but im not saying in anyway that he shouldve been shot.
|
|
|
Post by A Bingochea on Jul 28, 2006 2:15:43 GMT -5
To address the question of rank of the Airman, just bcz he is addressed as Senior Airman one day and Airman the next doesn't have to mean that he was demoted. Airman is a general name for all Air Force personel. Just like Marines are called Marines no matter what rank and Soldiers are Soldiers, Sailors are Sailors. Now some might go further in depth because of pride of Rank or Occupation in their service, but generally speaking it sounds like he was grouped into a general catagory. When I was in the Navy I was a Senior Petty Officer 3rd Class just bcz of time in my position and bcz I had deployed and other's who were my rank had not.
To address the issue of him being a Military Police Officer, you would think that he would have had some type of influence on his friend who was driving the car. Even if Alcohol was involved. But you know what they say " hind sight is always 20/20"
As a fellow Iraqi War Vet, who was a Navy Corpsman attached to the Marines for two combat deployments to Iraq and a Purple Heart Receipiant. I wish the Airman the best in his recovery. For the Officer in the video Godspeed.
|
|
|
Post by Anonymous on Jul 28, 2006 3:12:05 GMT -5
I understand airman is a term for all air force, but he really was a Senior Airman at the time of the shooting, and he was demoted two ranks to Airman. My source isnt an article that just calls him Airman Callion, im in the Air Force.
|
|