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Post by Det Poseidon on Mar 11, 2006 6:46:08 GMT -5
I have scene the shooting tape a few times, and it appears unjustified. There is no reason what-so-ever to shot someone who is unarmed and is not threat. Even if you are disrespecting a law enforcement officer, it does not give us a right to harmed someone.
This particular Deputy's behavior is that of a common thug. His behavior was that of a gangster with a badge and gun. First thing I thought of was that Hollywood movie Training Day.
I just hope people don't think badly of all police officers, most officers try to do the right thing. We do have officers who believe that they are above the law and we just have to hope that justice will prevail, so that the bad cops on not on the job.
I'd also like to see what Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson has to say. I wonder if any of the self proclaimed Civilterians come out of the closet on this one. We should all condemn actions like this whether the person is black, white, Hispanic, or other.
I challenge you all to voice your opinion on this one!
And if anyone is wondering, Yes I am a Police Officer and base on my training and experience, the actions of that night were totally unjustified!
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Post by officer myself on Mar 14, 2006 22:00:14 GMT -5
I wonder if charges would have been filed had he been a white Deputy. <quote>
this is why there's been no national coverage on this issue. because he is black! i bet you wont see jesse jackson making a big uproar about a black cop shooting someone, but once a white cop shoots someone the fur hits the fan. dont make this a racial thing in the first place. the only color when youre a cop is blue.
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Post by WaTcHeR on Mar 16, 2006 11:15:00 GMT -5
03/16/2006 - Luis Carrillo said a video of the Jan. 29 shooting of his client, Elio Carrion, 21, clearly catches Deputy Ivory J. Webb Jr. yelling, after the shooting, that Carrion tried to attack the him before he opened fire. The shooting, which an amateur cameraman captured on videotape, came after a high-speed car chase. The grainy footage appears to show Carrion, the passenger in the car, complying with Webb's commands to get up just before the deputy shot him three times.
Television broadcasts of the video, which are of poor quality, don't appear to back the claim that Carrion made any threatening moves toward the deputy. It also is difficult to hear any verbal exchanges after the shooting.
The San Bernardino County District Attorney's Office last week charged Webb with attempted voluntary manslaughter. Webb faces more than 18 years in prison if convicted of the charge and the enhancements of using a gun and causing great bodily injury to Carrion.
"When you look at the video and listen closely, you already know he is starting to set up his false version," Carrillo said Wednesday. "When (Webb) first talked to the officers, he was under the impression there was no contrary evidence that would discredit him."
Statements to San Bernardino County investigators bolster the accusations made by Carrillo and the man who took the video, Jose Luis Valdes. Both said they heard similar comments from Webb.
Webb's attorney, Michael Schwartz, did not return repeated calls for comment.
The deputy told a Chino police officer who arrived on the scene and later a sheriff's sergeant that Carrion had "charged him," according to information in a report published by the Los Angeles Times.
The nearly 400-page confidential sheriff's report, which the Times obtained, indicates that despite Webb's early statements, the deputy later said he shot Carrion because he believed the airman was going for a gun.
"I'm not surprised about the conflicting statements," Carrillo said Wednesday. "This shows that Webb should have been charged with attempted murder and giving false statements."
The attorney said the sheriff's department and FBI are in possession of an unedited version of the videotape.
Carrillo said he viewed the unedited version of the tape and added that Webb yelled expletives numerous times at Carrion after he was shot. Webb demanded that Carrion not move five times and then twice yelled more expletives at Carrion after the shooting, he said.
The last words Webb yelled were a warning to the injured Carrion not to attack him, Carrillo said.
The District Attorney's Office declined to comment on the accusations and also said despite the Times publishing excerpts from the report, it would not be released. The sheriff's department official called the document an investigative report and not a public document.
Four days had passed by the time Webb was interviewed by detectives, and he had already seen the video before meeting with investigators, the published account states. During a lengthy interview, Webb broke down, saying that he believed he was in danger.
"I'm dead," Webb said he was thinking at the time, according to the report. "I'm not going to see my baby, I'm not going to see my wife. I'm not going to see my dad."
According to the Times, it was unclear if detectives challenged Webb's contradictory statements.
Webb said when the Corvette stopped, Carrion emerged from the vehicle looking like he was trying to find an escape route. The deputy also was trying to keep an eye on the driver, Luis Fernando Escobedo, when the shooting occurred, according to the report.
Wednesday, Valdes said when the officers arrived at the scene, he invited officers to view the tape in his home.
Valdes said Webb had already been taken away from the scene by other officers. Investigators came into his home some stood behind his couch and others sat as the video played.
All the officers sat in silence until the moment Webb shot Carrion. At that point Valdes said "they all gasped."
"I don't know what the officer was thinking when he did that to Carrion," Valdes said. "From the beginning, I've been telling people that what I saw that night wasn't what (Webb) said happened. If I didn't videotape it, Webb would've been free and Carrion would be sitting in jail."
Carrillo on Wednesday said he agreed with Valdes that without the video, everything would have played out differently.
"It highlights that the custom and practice of police covering up misconduct and excessive force is alive and well in San Bernardino County," he said.
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George of the Jungle
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Post by George of the Jungle on Mar 29, 2006 3:48:29 GMT -5
My thoughts and prayers are with the family of Deputy Webb. Police Officers are called upon daily to protect and serve. Is it possible that Deputy Webb told the guy to "shut up"? My husband is also a Police Officer and I can imagine what Mrs. Webb and her entire family are going through right now. I will pray and offer my support to this family. I am sorry that the guy was shot, but lets think about it, why were they running from the police in the first place? If he is the "hero" that he wants to be hailed as, why was he driving in the car with someone who was drunk. Can we at least give this Deputy the benefit of the doubt? I wonder if charges would have been filed had he been a white Deputy. May God help us all if this man spends one moment in jail. The criminals have rights, what about Deputy Webb? My heartfelt prayers and thoughts are with his family tonight and until this Deputy is cleared of all charges. Are you Deaf. It was clear what he said. I hope Webb gets 20 years. What about 3 shots? that is pretty excessive to put someone down who is already on the ground. My father was a police officer. He even made it to chief. I have much respect for the police, but there are many bad apples who abuse their power. And the soldier was a passenger of that car. It was not his fault that the driver decided to evade the police. Passengers have little control when a driver decides to evade cops. The passenger in a police chase is pretty much a hostage of the situation. If he was drunk, he may not have had the ability to make any decisions or actions to stop the driver.
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Post by CplDaniel on Apr 3, 2006 3:32:11 GMT -5
I don't see why the officer wasn't charged with murder. The "malice" requirment can be satisfied with an extremely wreckless disregard for human life, which is clearly present in the video when firing multiple shots at an unarmed man, who was moving fairly slow by the way, on the ground. Think about this: by the logic of these prosecutors, if I fire random shots in the general direction of a large group of people, and a few of my shots hit lets say 4 people, that would be four counts of murder or attempted murder because even though i didn't maliciously set out to hit those four people, i acted with such a wreckless disregard for the possibilty that they might lose their lives as to warrent a charge beyond manslaughter. It was an act of God that the buy lived through the night. The cop did tell him to get up, the cop had complete control of the situation, the cop had other non-lethal options to use at that close range and had no reason to believe that this particular suspect was violent or armed. As for the chase, if I just spent my enlistment and combat bonus on America's best sportscar, I'd drive it at 100 miles an hour late at night too. I may zoon past a cop, and if moves at all after me, it is a de facto carchase. All reports say that it was brief and there is no evidence that shows that the drivers were even aware of a pursuit before their car going a 100mph crashed into a tree. Bottom line the man empowered for the service of the public good, abused the powers and trust conferred upon him by firing multiple shots, point-blank, at an unarmed citizin, in a situation where the officer had complete control. And to follow it up the cop didn't like that the man moaned after being shot and with many expletives and a complete lack of respect for a citizen told the shot man to shut up!
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Post by CplDaniel on Apr 3, 2006 3:35:59 GMT -5
I miswrote the line on the prosecutors logic. By their prosecutors logic, what in the real world would be four murders, 4 lifesentances, would be four manslaughters, and i'd be free before my 40th birthday.
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Post by Objective on Apr 7, 2006 13:10:39 GMT -5
I wondering if anyone is aware that what the public see on the tape is not what the deputy Webb saw. Hey everyone that has a video camera, wait until night and turn it on. First, just look through it, than turn on night vision. We as the public were seeing it by a night vision camera. Last I checked my eyes don't have night vision. So before we jump on Officer Webb, stop and think. Also, I'm concerned about the repeated use of the young man that was shoot as some kind of war hero, just because he came back from Irag. My question to the young man would be, "why would you put yourself in a car with a friend that would run from the police? I don't know where most of you guys are from, but that would be dangerous. The young men might be only guility of making dum choices of friends, but I know for a fact, that can get you hurt or killed. Any time I have been pulled over by a police officer, I never assume an officer is not afraid. Just because you have a guy, it does not make you brave. It's not a perfect world and it never will be. Just look at ourselves and remember to remind your kids.
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Post by kkk on Apr 16, 2006 10:21:53 GMT -5
hang this monkey.
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Post by officer myself on Apr 18, 2006 23:18:33 GMT -5
does this forum not have a moderator? attitudes like that are a waste of space and just want a reaction. well you got your attention bud, now go finger paint.
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Post by WaTcHeR on Apr 19, 2006 9:24:13 GMT -5
Sounds like something a cop would be saying doesn't it?
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Post by WaTcHeR on Apr 22, 2006 14:06:34 GMT -5
04/22/2006 - A sheriff's deputy who shot an unarmed senior airman at the end of a brief high-speed car chase in January no longer works for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department, an official said Friday.
Ivory J. Webb Jr., who was assigned to the sheriff's Chino Hills station, ceased to be employed by the department as of April 13, sheriff's spokeswoman Cindy Beavers said.
"Once the investigation was complete, we were informed that Deputy Webb no longer worked here," she said.
She did not disclose whether he was terminated or he resigned, saying the law prohibits the department from disclosing that information.
Webb shot Air Force policeman Elio Carrion on Jan. 29 after a short high-speed chase in which Carrion was a passenger in a Corvette. Carrion, who lives in Shreveport, La., was in town celebrating with family after returning from duty in Iraq.
An amateur cameraman captured the shooting on tape. The tape appears to show Carrion complying with Webb's orders to get up from the ground when Webb opened fire.
The District Attorney's Office charged Webb with attempted voluntary manslaughter with a special allegation of causing great bodily injury to Carrion. The charges carry a maximum penalty of up to 18 years and six months in prison. Webb is the first San Bernardino County deputy in at least 30 years to be criminally charged in an on-duty shooting.
The FBI, which is investigating the case for possible civil-rights violations, produced an enhanced copy of the videotape that prosecutors reviewed. The enhanced audio and video left no doubt that Webb commanded Carrion to get up from the ground before Webb opened fire on him, prosecutors said. There were no updates to the federal investigation Friday, said FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller.
Luis Fernando Escobedo, the driver accused of leading Webb on the chase before crashing on Francis Street in Chino, faces charges of attempting to evade a peace officer while driving recklessly and driving while under the influence.
He appeared in San Bernardino Superior Court on Friday for a hearing in which Judge Brian McCarville issued a protective order on all documents and evidence related to the case. Escobedo had no comment regarding Webb's status with the Sheriff's Department.
His attorney, Antonio Rodriguez, said Escobedo remains sorry about the events that led to the shooting. Escobedo has apologized to the Carrion family for failing to immediately pull over.
"I have no idea whether (Webb) resigned or was terminated, but like my client, he is under a lot of pressure," Rodriguez said.
Luis Carrillo, the attorney representing the Carrion family, said he had heard about Webb's employment status this week.
"I think that's a benefit to the community, that he will no longer be patrolling with a gun," Carrillo said.
Webb could not be reached for comment Friday. A woman who answered the phone at his parents' Santa Ana home declined to discuss Webb.
Webb's attorney, Michael Schwartz, also declined comment.
Deputy District Attorney Lewis Cope, who is prosecuting Webb, said he had not received confirmation that Webb had left the Sheriff's Department.
"Whether he has or hasn't been separated from the Sheriff's Department, that does not have any bearing in our intention to pursue this case to its appropriate end," he said.
Escobedo is expected to return to court Friday for a separate drunken-driving case in Rancho Cucamonga. A hearing on Webb's case is scheduled for the same day.
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Post by Occifer Catpiss on Apr 24, 2006 8:27:36 GMT -5
My question to the young man would be, "why would you put yourself in a car with a friend that would run from the police? I am sure he did not know his friend was going to be chased by the police. It is not something that happens often, though his friend sounds like a real loser. I was in a police chase once, and none of the passengers of the vehicle had any control over what the driver was doing.
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Post by Cop Hater For lIFE on May 3, 2006 23:38:08 GMT -5
>:(You people that think the nigger officer is innocent should have your head examined. The sonofabitch shot the young man after he was told to get up, and he was complying. I hope the bastard cop goes to prison, and is put into the population with cop killers, and haters. The Carrion family should sue the sheriff'e dept. for every goddamn dime they have, or will ever have. Sympathy for Webb's family, I THINK NOT. And now they are trying to intimidate the witness who taped it all? Just goes to show, when the idiot cops know they are wrong, they will try to corrupt the system and use it to their favor. To hell with that cop. He screwed up, and they know it, so do us all a favor and lock his black ass up for 50 years.
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Post by Blake on May 12, 2006 10:41:26 GMT -5
The Deputy was scared. He had just been in a car chase which gets your heart rate pumping at a very high rate. Fear causes poor decision making and verbal control goes down the toilet. It is very possible that the deputy meant to tell Mr. Carrion "not" to get up, but the words came out wrong. I don't know if the Deputy thought Mr. Carrion was armed or not. I'm not sure if he had already conducted a frisk, or if Mr. Carrion gave any indications that he meant to harm the deputy. Although I don't like to play "Armchair Quarterback", This looks really bad for Deputy Webb. Mr. Carrion may have been talking the whole time, but he was also obeying verbal commands when he stood up. I did not see him make any movements that would suggest he was reaching for a weapon. Perhaps there is more video that might shed more light on what happened. Hopefully, for Deputy Webb, there is. Otherwise, this looks like a street execution, and Deputy Webb will probably go to prison. Either way, I feel bad for both sides. I don't think this has anything to do with the race of the deputy, whoever brought that up. I think that whatever academy this deputy went through needs to take another look at how much time they spend on weapons training, and more importantly, use of force training. I hope that it comes down to training, and not a trigger-happy cop. That makes every cop in the country look bad.
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Post by amazed on May 14, 2006 1:00:53 GMT -5
My thoughts and prayers are with the family of Deputy Webb. Police Officers are called upon daily to protect and serve. Is it possible that Deputy Webb told the guy to "shut up"? My husband is also a Police Officer and I can imagine what Mrs. Webb and her entire family are going through right now. I will pray and offer my support to this family. I am sorry that the guy was shot, but lets think about it, why were they running from the police in the first place? If he is the "hero" that he wants to be hailed as, why was he driving in the car with someone who was drunk. Can we at least give this Deputy the benefit of the doubt? I wonder if charges would have been filed had he been a white Deputy. May God help us all if this man spends one moment in jail. The criminals have rights, what about Deputy Webb? My heartfelt prayers and thoughts are with his family tonight and until this Deputy is cleared of all charges. Deputy Ivory Webb acted with willful and wanton disregard to the public’s safety and his gross criminal misconduct nearly caused the death on an innocent unarmed citizen who is a military police officer. Not only did he shoot an innocent unarmed man but afterwards Deputy Webb shouted numerous profanities at his Victim. He then lied to the officers who arrived at the scene stating that carrion lunged at him to justify his unlawful shooting; and to have the victim charged for a crime which the video clear reveals the victim to be innocent of any wrong doing. Yet you in your infinite Wisdom believe that Deputy Ivory Webb is Not A Criminal. You are a JOKE!
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Post by Occifer Catpiss on May 17, 2006 19:12:56 GMT -5
Ex-Hawkeye Webb no longer has job
May 12, 2006
The Daily Bulletin newspaper in California reported Thursday that former Iowa football player Ivory J. Webb Jr., a sheriff's deputy who shot an unarmed Air Force airman in January, no longer works for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department.
Webb ceased to be employed by the department as of April 13, but officials would not disclose whether he was fired or he resigned.
Webb shot Elio Carrion on Jan. 29 following a short high-speed chase. Webb was charged with attempted voluntary manslaughter and a special allegation of causing great bodily injury.
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Post by KC on May 17, 2006 19:57:09 GMT -5
Ex-Hawkeye Webb no longer has job May 12, 2006 The Daily Bulletin newspaper in California reported Thursday that former Iowa football player Ivory J. Webb Jr., a sheriff's deputy who shot an unarmed Air Force airman in January, no longer works for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department. Webb ceased to be employed by the department as of April 13, but officials would not disclose whether he was fired or he resigned. Webb shot Elio Carrion on Jan. 29 following a short high-speed chase. Webb was charged with attempted voluntary manslaughter and a special allegation of causing great bodily injury. Most police departments usually don't stand behind liars, when there caught on tape.
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Post by Jamaal Johnson on May 23, 2006 15:21:19 GMT -5
Today is the day he is supposed to stand trial
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Post by Jserca on May 23, 2006 19:12:40 GMT -5
Go to hell Ivory Webb.
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Post by WaTcHeR on May 24, 2006 9:41:25 GMT -5
Hearing for Ex-Deputy in Shooting to Be Aug. 22 May 24, 2006 - The former San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy charged with attempted voluntary manslaughter in the shooting of an Air Force policeman in January will have his preliminary hearing Aug. 22. Superior Court Judge Michael Smith scheduled the hearing at a brief hearing Tuesday. Ivory John Webb Jr. appeared with his attorney and departed without a comment. Webb left the Sheriff's Department last month as a result of his videotaped Jan. 29 shooting, which wounded Senior Airman Elio Carrion in Chino. Webb, who has pleaded not guilty, faces a maximum 18½ years in prison if convicted.
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