Man refused to remove hat, Tasered by Police

[WaTcHeR]

11.10.2006 - SAGINAW -- Saginaw's City Council meeting featured a shocking incident Monday night. A Saginaw Valley State University student was TASERed after he became unruly after being asked to take off his baseball cap.

There is a new rule at Saginaw City Council meetings. Men are required to take their hats off. Evidently, they are pretty serious about this new rule.

The man was wearing a Los Angeles Dodgers hat. Officer Doug Stacer of the Saginaw Police Department asked him to remove the hat. The man raised his voice and did not remove the hat.

As the officer tried to grab the hat and then tried to grab the man, the man with the hat tried to kick Saginaw Police Chief Gerald Cliff, who was coming to help out.

At that point, Stacer TASERed the man, which sends 50,000 volts into a person's body. Cliff and Stacer got help from Saginaw County Sheriff Charles Brown hauling the man off to jail.

A few people stood up and watched the event; the meeting resumed a short time later.

The man faces possible charges of alarming and harassing conduct -- a misdemeanor -- and assaulting a police officer. That's a felony. He was not arraigned Tuesday.

abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=local&id=4738161

[WaTcHeR]

I don't think Saginaw is a place I would want to raise a family. In fact why would anyone in their right mind, want to live in Saginaw? With stupid laws made by the government and pussy cops like Officer Doug Stacer, Saginaw just doesn't seem like an appealing place to live.

[md4j]

Moron should have taken his hat off. That's a rule everywhere around where I live.

[FB]

md4j said:

Moron should have taken his hat off. That's a rule everywhere around where I live.

You're the moron md4j. Is the building where the meeting was being held, not a "public" building? Was the meeting not a public meeting? Who pays for all this? That's right tax payers do. So if you want to a wear a hat in a meeting you should be able to, without Nazi lovers like Md4j thinking otherwise.

[WaTcHeR]

11.20.2006 - SAGINAW -- The man who was TASERed at last week's Saginaw City Council meeting says he never attacked anyone.

Charles Littleton says he was only standing up for his rights -- rights he says society continues to lose every day.

That is what got 22-year-old Littleton in trouble. He didn't obey a rule inside Saginaw City Council chambers. That rule is that all men must remove their hats.

"It means more than just a hat," Littleton said. "It's like my crown. It's like asking a king to remove his crown."

Littleton had his Los Angeles Dodgers hat on at last week's council meeting.

He was dragged out of the meeting after being TASERed following what was described as scuffle with police, but Littleton says it didn't happen that way.

"I never kicked, punched, swung or anything like that," he said. "They are making it seem like I attacked the officer, then had to be TASERed because I was attacking them. That's not true at all."

The Detroit-area resident and Saginaw Valley State University student has now been charged with two felonies and a misdemeanor because of the incident.

He was attending the meeting to get extra credit for an urban sociology class. He was unaware of the council rule, which calls for all men to remove their hats.

"It's not about them trying to bring order to a meeting because my hat -- not its shape, form or fashion -- disrupted the proceedings," he said.

"They just want to control us and tell us what we can or cannot do. I will not bow down and bow out and follow blindly."

Littleton says he believes the rule discriminates.

"A Jewish man -- would you ask me to remove my Yamika? A Kofee? A turban? Anything like that?" Littleton said.

"But I guess a Los Angeles Dodgers hat is not a religious symbol. That is secular. You respect religion but you don't respect this."

Littleton plans on going to the Saginaw County Courthouse this week to be arraigned on the charges.

[WaTcHeR]

I think that the citizens of Saginaw should hold down Officer Doug Stacer and the Saginaw City Council and Taser them in the balls, until there eyeballs explode.

[md4j]

FB said:

md4j said:

Moron should have taken his hat off. That's a rule everywhere around where I live.

You're the moron md4j. Is the building where the meeting was being held, not a "public" building? Was the meeting not a public meeting? Who pays for all this? That's right tax payers do. So if you want to a wear a hat in a meeting you should be able to, without Nazi lovers like Md4j thinking otherwise.

Why should there not be some kind of dress code? I don't personally care if people wear hats or not, but that's the dress code and that's what is required. Why is it such an issue to take of ones hat? If your hair isn't fixed then get a brush.

Tax payers also pay for the Presidents salary, does that mean we get to tell him what to do? They also pay for police and firemen's salaries. does that mean we get to tell them what to do? The answer is no on both of those. There are rules and laws everywhere. If you wish to go to the meeting then you must take off your hat. If you don't want to do that then you don't want to go to the meeting bad enough.

[WaTcHeR]

md4j said:

Why should there not be some kind of dress code? I don't personally care if people wear hats or not, but that's the dress code and that's what is required. Why is it such an issue to take of ones hat? If your hair isn't fixed then get a brush.

Tax payers also pay for the Presidents salary, does that mean we get to tell him what to do? They also pay for police and firemen's salaries. does that mean we get to tell them what to do? The answer is no on both of those. There are rules and laws everywhere. If you wish to go to the meeting then you must take off your hat. If you don't want to do that then you don't want to go to the meeting bad enough.

That's a big part of the problem there buddy. The government wants to have this power and control and have no accountability on what they do. The same goes with police officers, they would prefer to work as a "secret police" and not be held accountable for their actions. I assume MD4J, that you feel this is all ok?

First of all "taxes" are stolen from citizens. We don't voluntarily give our money to the government do we? No! The government are nothing more than thieves that care more for its self, than its citizens.

Rules and regulations are nothing more than tools used by the government to keep its citizens under control. The man wasn't hurting no one by wearing a hat, yet the law was called in to be a strong armed thug. The man was just there exercising his right to be at a "public" meeting.

What's next MD4J? What if they make a rule that if you don't wear shoes you can't attend a public meeting? What if someone wears a hat again or is to poor to wear shoes and the police beat them with a night stick or shoot and kill them?

I feel if the government and law enforcement have to use such tactics against citizens for wearing a hat, than I have no problem with people doing the same back to our government and police officers. You can only push people so far.

Remember next time you see a police officer, that police officer maybe the very cop that uses a Taser on you or kills you because you refused to remove your hat. Should you really smile at, say hello or even trust someone like that?

[md4j]

watcher said:

md4j said:

Why should there not be some kind of dress code? I don't personally care if people wear hats or not, but that's the dress code and that's what is required. Why is it such an issue to take of ones hat? If your hair isn't fixed then get a brush.

Tax payers also pay for the Presidents salary, does that mean we get to tell him what to do? They also pay for police and firemen's salaries. does that mean we get to tell them what to do? The answer is no on both of those. There are rules and laws everywhere. If you wish to go to the meeting then you must take off your hat. If you don't want to do that then you don't want to go to the meeting bad enough.

That's a big part of the problem there buddy. The government wants to have this power and control and have no accountability on what they do. The same goes with police officers, they would prefer to work as a "secret police" and not be held accountable for their actions. I assume MD4J, that you feel this is all ok?

First of all "taxes" are stolen from citizens. We don't voluntarily give our money to the government do we? No! The government are nothing more than thieves that care more for its self, than its citizens.

Rules and regulations are nothing more than tools used by the government to keep its citizens under control. The man wasn't hurting no one by wearing a hat, yet the law was called in to be a strong armed thug. The man was just there exercising his right to be at a "public" meeting.

What's next MD4J? What if they make a rule that if you don't wear shoes you can't attend a public meeting? What if someone wears a hat again or is to poor to wear shoes and the police beat them with a night stick or shoot and kill them?

I feel if the government and law enforcement have to use such tactics against citizens for wearing a hat, than I have no problem with people doing the same back to our government and police officers. You can only push people so far.

Remember next time you see a police officer, that police officer maybe the very cop that uses a Taser on you or kills you because you refused to remove your hat. Should you really smile at, say hello or even trust someone like that?

Yes. Most officers aren't people beaters and illegal thugs. It seems that you have a conspiracy theory complex when it comes to the government. I have no problem with your take on taxes. Let's take away all the things the government does do for us with those taxes and see how well things are. Remember next time you see a police officer, that police officer may be the one that saves your life in one way or another. You wish to bash on officers continually because you believe everything to be a conspiracy. The US has laws, obey them or leave. They require you to pay taxes, pay them or leave. You are not forced to live here. However if you choose to live here you will follow the rules and regulations set forth by the government or face the consequences. Can you get some of those rules changed? Absolutely, and you should. However until those rules are changed that doesn't give you the right to be a lawbreaker.

As far as your example about wearing shoes, that's stupid because that's not even the law as of yet. If it does become one then you can challenge it in the court, which will probably agree with you.

Maybe instead of looking at everything through the eyes of a conspiracy theorist maybe you should look at it through the eyes of a regular human being. Like I said if you don't like paying taxes and following the United States rules then you can move to another country. Until then, follow them or suffer the consequences.

Maybe if I ever get the chance to meet you, you will realize that not all officers are horrible people. Some even help

[WaTcHeR]

It seems that you have a conspiracy theory complex when it comes to the government. I have no problem with your take on taxes. Let's take away all the things the government does do for us with those taxes and see how well things are.


I say lets find a government that can do a better job. Our government for well over 80 years has done nothing but lie, steal, threaten and kill. Any organized crime group could do that. You seem to give our government a lot of credit. You're probable one of those who thought President Ford was a great president, because he pardon a criminal. Even our very on government has said that it isn't their duty to protect it's citizens. The only thing that police officers protect are the so called laws and the majority of those laws protect the government from "We the People."



Remember next time you see a police officer, that police officer may be the one that saves your life in one way or another.


I wouldn't hold my breath or make any large wagers on this one. That's not their job to do, but out of kindness they might.



You wish to bash on officers continually because you believe everything to be a conspiracy. The US has laws, obey them or leave. They require you to pay taxes, pay them or leave. You are not forced to live here. However if you choose to live here you will follow the rules and regulations set forth by the government or face the consequences.


Face the consequences? This coming from a pawn of the government? What will they do send police officers to my house to hurt me if I don't obey by what they say and pay my taxes? Yes! Strong arm thugs for the government is what the police are. Leave the country? I would rather die fighting! Who says that a country belongs to a certain government? Is it who has the most soldiers, that gets to keep the country? This country was stolen from the Indians, there is nothing stopping someone else from taking over and try to make it better. Starting back in the late 50's or early 60's did our government realize that their biggest threat wasn't from another country, the threat to the government was from it's very own citizens.


As far as your example about wearing shoes, that's stupid because that's not even the law as of yet. If it does become one then you can challenge it in the court, which will probably agree with you.


The not wearing of a hat wasn't a law either, it was only a "rule." So would you Taser a homeless person who had no shoes, because it was a "rule" and they tried to attend a public meeting and wouldn't leave?


The US has laws, obey them or leave.

I will live, kill and die fighting for my freedom.

"This country belongs to the people and whenever they shall grow weary of their government they can exercise their constitutional right to amend it, or revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it." -- Abraham Lincoln

"A little rebellion now and then is a good thing." - Thomas Jefferson

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." - Thomas Paine

[trooper]

Watcher,

With that theory, would it be okay if a homeless person came into the restaraunt you were eating at with your family and defecated on your table? After all, he can't afford a toilet, and this restaraunt may not have public restrooms. I suppose that would be okay with you, because "the man" just makes up rules to keep you down.

[WaTcHeR]

trooper said:

Watcher,

With that theory, would it be okay if a homeless person came into the restaraunt you were eating at with your family and defecated on your table? After all, he can't afford a toilet, and this restaraunt may not have public restrooms. I suppose that would be okay with you, because "the man" just makes up rules to keep you down.

Hey boy don't you have income you should making for the government?

There's a difference between a man wearing a hat and taking a shit on a table in a restaurant. In any scenario I'm sure you would be more than happy to Taser either person.

Whenever I read of a cop being killed, I get a smile on my face and I always hope he's one of the ignorant cops that make stupid remarks like you made.